Sep 15 2008
The Italian poll explanation
To me, “the Olive Garden” is the McDonald’s of Italian food, a step up the Italian cuisine ladder from Pizza Hut. There’s one within a block of every interstate exit, right alongside Taco Bell, Cracker Barrel, and all the familiar flavors that comfort hungry travelers. They all look the same. They all have the same food and the same assembly-line service. I assume, since it’s a franchise, there’s little variation wherever you may be.
To me, “an Italian restaurant” is smaller, probably family owned. It has some ambience, even if stereotyped and contrived. It’s not located in the highest-rent district of town. Its clientele is local and loyal. Its menu has the usual fare but varies in some respects from any other Italian restaurant you’ll ever go to because there’s no corporate enforcement of continuity.
Two sets of three words with distinctly different connotations to me and 90% of those participating in my highly scientific poll. Good. I’m not the only one.
I know someone who submitted a story to a certain writer site for critique. It’s a fun story. It’s fast paced. It has steadily escalating conflict and a satisfying resolution. There were a couple of tiny issues like “was -ing” verb constructions that could be cleaned up, but with a quick one-day edit, the story would fit seamlessly into an anthology with multipublished authors in the same genre. Yay for her.
I checked back the next day, and there were FIVE HUNDRED comments, the majority a flamefest regarding the—dun dun DUUUUUNNNNN—flagrant brand-name usage!
Yes, within 30,000 words, the author used three—”the Olive Garden”—to identify a food source for a character staying at an interstate motel. Didn’t name the motel (because it was purposely generic). Didn’t name the character’s car (because it was deep POV and people think “my car” not “my 2004 Toyota Corolla”). Didn’t name her clothes or her shoes or her shampoo. The sole mention of any publicly recognizable entity was “the Olive Garden.”
Clearly FLAGRANT brand-name abuse that completely overshadows the remaining 29,997 words of the story.
I suppose the point is, once again, that I’m dismayed by the lack of interest in STORY so many writers display, having a 500-comment tantrum over a detail that was deliberately chosen to evoke a certain familiar setting rather than evaluating any other element of the STORY.
Is it any wonder books are becoming “homogenized” when all the identifying characteristics are being stripped from the material like a damn HIPAA-regulated medical record during the “critique” phase?
The last huge flamefest I witnessed over there suggested we strike Americanisms from our writing vocabulary because our international friends don’t get the references. God forbid anyone shouldn’t understand and be curious and look something up and learn. I know what “football” means in other countries. I know what a “loo” and a ”lift” and a “flat” are. I know what a “Tata” is. Hey, I can even handle medical and scientific and legal and archaic and foreign and MADE-UP words in the books I read. Are these writers suggesting non-American readers are so unintelligent their reading material must be run through a language filter to strain out all the tricksy words before they can comprehend?
Wow. How staggeringly condescending.
Hey, how about a poll to address in the comments:
Does anyone think “use vague, generic terms to identify all items” and “don’t use your own vocabulary because everyone on the planet might not understand what you mean” are valuable pieces of criticism, or even valid pieces of criticism? And do you think this “crit, crit, crit, must have crit” thing (which is not anywhere near as common in the world of male writers, by the way) does more benefit or harm to the art of storytelling?
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September 15th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Psh, if I used vague terms in my MS, I’d have to cut half the jokes. Pop culture references are key to much of my humor because I find pop culture ridiculous.
However, I find crits very helpful–as long as they’re taken with a grain of salt. Ultimately, I’m the Big Critter, so if I disagree with what someone says in critting my work, well then I ignore it. I’m not going to change my voice just to please someone else.
But at the same time, I’ve tightened my writing and emphasized my voice so much more because of my crit group. Besides, being as I write in a genre commonly labelled as “commercial fiction,” I’m sure I’d get many similar comments from editors.
September 15th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
I don’t get the big deal about brand names and pop culture references. To me, that’s between an editor and an author. I just want to know the author can deliver the story. (Besides, my own WIP has several brand name references within the first few chapters. I invite the literary community at large to get over it.)
As for critique partners…I think they can be very beneficial but you have to be careful to choose wisely. You don’t need someone whose only critiques are efforts to change your writing into THEIR voice. But my own CP’s have been a tremendous help in not only fine-tuning but in exposing gaps in theme/conflict and pushing me to dig deeper so the book will be so much stronger.
Now I must go. I have a moth to kill.
September 16th, 2008 at 5:42 am
Oh, good grief. :/ That’s ridiculous. To me, a sprinkling of brand names and specific businesses enhances the depth and realism of the story. Too much generic pablum makes the story world look flat and cardboard. Too much specificity can start looking like a grocery list or a Chamber of Commerce brochure, but in general I’d rather see a character making garlic hummus and crostini than “hors d’oeuvres” or planting sterling silver roses with a border of purple alyssum than “flowers,” and if they’re going to a restaurant I’d like to see something specific about that too. If it’s the Olive Garden then call it the Olive Garden. If it’s Dino’s Deli on the corner, then call it that. Whatever.
And no, I wouldn’t consider this to be useful crit at all. In general, though, I love concrit, and I’d be happy saying, “Thanks for your input” and ignoring this. [wry smile]
Angie
September 17th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I suppose it boils down to the credibility of the person giving the crit. I get the feeling every time I stray (am asked to stray, rather) into that particular environment that everybody has their own agenda, and it never has anything to do with the piece being critiqued.
There’s also a pretty distinct pattern that every positive or helpful response is immediately followed by twenty condescending, insulting, and irrelevant comments. Yes, by all means, disregard them as bullshit, but why bother to post anything there knowing 95% of the feedback comes from the Malice Clique? They always throw out the “toughen up, honey” justification for behaving like bitchy teenagers, but isn’t the point of crit to improve the work, not thicken the skin?
The whole system doesn’t make sense to me. Then again, most systems don’t because the purpose advertised is rarely served.
September 18th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Hmm…Malice Clique? I’m assuming this is lingo from a web community of which I am not a part.
lol
My CP’s are friends who also write and are trustworthy in their feedback. Nary a one of them gives me one nice and 20 nasty.
Most likely because they know I have their address, a van, and a Spatula of Doom with very few scruples for how I use it.
September 19th, 2008 at 5:49 am
I think you’re too pratical to hang out at this place. I saw what was going on within the first minute of my first visit and would never have returned if people who don’t know any better would quit asking me to read their “stuff.” (Still don’t know why people do that. Not like I’m tremendously helpful.)
But… Malice Clique. Bitch Brigade. I call them a variety of things. They appear to be a group of about 20, but I suspect they’re closer to 4 or 5 using multiple screen names because:
(a) It’s hard for a ringleader to control 20;
(b) 20 isn’t very exclusive and they need to feel speshul; and
(c) they all sound remarkably the same, and that kind of cohesion is tough to pull off.
If I was running the joint, I’d be checking IP addresses and calling people out, but I’m not, so I can’t.
Actually, I’d be banning IP addresses for bringing down property values in the community, but I’m a control freak like that.
September 19th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Oooh. *rubs hands together with glee* I just loves the idea of banning ip addresses! It speaks to my control side as well as my If You Can’t Say Anything Nice, SFU side.
And you don’t give yourself enough credit. You are single-handedly responsible for pulling me out of a funk of doubt and restoring my desire to write. Yes, I would have arrived myself eventually, but you gave me a nice, healthy shove.
Anyway, you’re right, I don’t spend ANY time on something that won’t profit my career or support a friend and I don’t spend a single second of my emotional energy on anyone who isn’t worth it.